2007年乔布斯与比尔盖茨顶尖对话@人人英语2007年乔布斯与比尔·盖茨顶尖对话主持人：第一个我挺感兴趣想问的是The first question that I am kind of interested in asking你们觉得彼此对计算机和科技行业的贡献分别是哪些what you think each has contributed to the computer and technology industry乔布斯，你先来说说盖茨，然后再交换starting with you, Steve, for Bill and vice versa.乔布斯：最关键的一点是盖茨非常专注于软件The biggest thing was that Bill was really focused on software,而且是在大家都还搞不清什么是真正的软件时就开始了before anybody else had a clue it was really the software.主持人：盖茨，你说说乔布斯和苹果的贡献？Bill, how about the contribution of Steve and Apple?盖茨：首先我想澄清，我不是“假的乔布斯”（博客上的一个玩笑）First, I want to clarify I am not fake Steve Jobs.主持人：事实上，我还看了一个1978年的苹果广告是份印刷广告，所以可以看出这是多么久远前的事了Actually I looked at an Apple ad from 1978 It was a print ad that shows you how ancient it was.广告是这样说的，上千人发现了苹果电脑And it said, thousands of people have discovered the Apple Computer.乔布斯：那个时候我们确实有不少古怪的广告We had some very strange ads back then.比如有一个广告取景在厨房There was one that was in the kitchen.有个看起来像是主妇的女人，在用电脑输入菜谱,And there was a woman that looked like the wife，she was typing the recipes on the computer而他的老公在身后赞许地看着她.类似这样的...with her husband looking on approvingly on the back.Stuff like that…主持人：这里有些人可能知道，不过我想大多数人都不知道Some people here, but I don't think most people know苹果二代电脑里其实还装了微软的软件there was actually a Microsoft software on that Apple II Computer.你能说说这是怎么一回事吗？是怎么发生的？Do you want to talk about what happened there? How that occurred?盖茨：最早的苹果二代用的是基于整数运算的Basic操作系统，我们完全没有参与The original Apple II BASIC, the integer BASIC,we had nothing to do with it.后来改版成支持浮点运算的那个（就有微软参与了），这个项目主要是我和沃兹尼亚克一起做的...And then there was a floating-point one,where I mostly worked with Woz on that.乔布斯：让我来说这个故事吧Let me tell the story.我们得到很多反馈，用户希望Basic操作系统能支持浮点运算We are getting a lot of input that people want this BASIC to be floating point.我们都在求沃兹尼亚克求求你！求求你让它支持浮点运算吧Please! Please make this floating point. We are begging Woz.主持人：这里“我们”指的是谁？有多少苹果的人这样要求？Who is "we"? How many people at Apple?乔布斯：这个，其实就我一个。
我们都求沃兹尼亚克让它支持浮点运算Well, me.We are begging Woz to make this floating point.他就是一直不肯做。
他只是写在纸上。
He just never does it. He wrote it by hand on paper.主持人：苹果给了你多少钱？你前面好像提到过How much was it? I think you were telling us earlier.盖茨：哦，3万1千美金Oh, $31,000.来提供支持浮点运算的BASIC操作系统For the floating point BASIC.我飞到苹果总部，花了两天的时间把那磁带搞定...And I flew out to Apple and spent two days there getting the cassette…磁带是那个时代的主要存储工具The cassette tapes were the main ways people stored things at the time.你可以想象，那很有意思And, you know, that was fun.我们在一起工作，没有确定的日程计划So we were working together. The schedules were uncertain.没有明确的配置要求，价格也都还不定...The quality was uncertain. And the price...乔布斯原来设想的电脑比最后实际推出的要便宜很多。
When Steve first came up, it was gonna be an a lot cheaper computer than it end up being.不过这也没什么，所以我们赌了图形界面会是下一个革新But that was fine.So we made this bet that this paradigm shift would be the graphic interface.尤其是苹果电脑会用其128K的内存让这一切变成可能Particularly the Macintosh will make it happen with 128K of memory.屏显缓存22K，操作系统14K22k of which was for the screen buffer, 14k was for the operating system.主持人：14K?!14K?!盖茨：那是我们正在和Gil Amelio（苹果当时的CEO）谈一笔投资交易We were actually negotiating a deal to invest and make some commitment with Gil Amelio后来没多久，乔布斯打电话给我说Next thing I know, Steve called me and said,“不用和Gil Amelio谈了，现在你可以直接和我谈了。
”（乔布斯回归苹果了）"Don't worry about that negotiation with Gil Amelio，you can just talk with me now."主持人：在今天的大环境下你们是如何看待彼此的？How do you look at yourself in this landscape today?在某些方面，你们是竞争对手。
You are competitors in certain ways.我们都看了那些广告。
你们都会时不时因为对方而恼火We watched the commercials.You get annoyed at each other from time to time.我得坦白我挺喜欢那个广告里代表PC的人的I have to confess I like the PC guy.乔布斯：是啊，他很棒啊。
Yes, he is great.我挺喜欢他的I like him.乔布斯：说这些广告很艺术就是因为它们不是为了让PC和Mac相互苛求You know the art of those commercials is not to be mean,而是让他们相互喜欢but actually for the guys to like each other.盖茨：谢谢！Thanks!乔布斯：用PC的人很棒啊！他们心地善良。
PC guys are great.They got a great heart.有几个例子比如做Zune（微软的类似iPod产品）的那个小组In a few cases like the Zune, if you go over to that group.他们会把苹果当作竞争对手they think of Apple as the competitor.盖茨：他们为苹果创造了个那么巨大的市场而感到高兴They love the fact that Apple has created a gigantic market.他们也会参与进来并努力作点自己的贡献And they are gonna try and come in and contribute something to that.我们很喜欢他们，因为他们都是我们（iPod）的用户We love them, 'coz they are all customers.（Xbox 360）用的是和Mac一样的处理器the same processors essentially that the Mac had这是我们认识上反差最大的事之一，在苹果放弃那个处理器的时候（该处理器在移动方面有欠缺）this is one of those great ironies，that they were switching away from that processor, XBox 360正开始采用它（XBox不需要移动应用）while the Xbox 360 was adopting it.不过两者虽然做法不同，但都有各自的道理。